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PSA: All evidence needs to be replicable, with documented procedures so ANYBODY can repeat the process and find the same result. | /r/Pizzagate Archive
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<meta content="Archived /r/Pizzagate post from Nov 15 2016 20:10:43 created by JangoTheJanitor" name="description"/>
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<div class="submission" id="t3_5d4qk4">
<p class="userinfo">
<a href="https://www.reddit.com/u/JangoTheJanitor">
JangoTheJanitor
</a>
<span class="score">
| 456 points
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<span class="timestamp">
| Nov 15 2016 20:10:43
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</p>
<strong>
PSA: All evidence needs to be replicable, with documented procedures so ANYBODY can repeat the process and find the same result.
</strong>
<p>
</p>
<p>
The scientific method applies to investigative work as much as anywhere else. Over my time on this sub, I've seen many well-intentioned users get led astray because of false leads.
</p>
<p>
Let's look at the "owl flag" 4chan post example (https://www.reddit.com/r/pizzagate/comments/5cxsn9/the_owl_and_the_cross/). A 4chan user claims to have extracted a flag with an owl and an iron cross from pizza.jpg, claiming they used a particular piece of steganography software to do so, but "adjusted the contract first." They did not specify exactly how the contrast had been adjusted, and nobody attempted to independently verify that evidence. Many just took it at face value and assumed that image was indeed present.
</p>
<p>
At this point, nobody has been able to replicate that procedure, making it likely it was a hoax.
</p>
<p>
We're finding new information here every day, and I wanted to remind everybody how essential it is to document exactly how you got to every important step you're at. If you find a hidden image, document where that image was, what tools you used to obtain it, and exactly how you used them. It's more than just saying "there's a hidden file here, I used a hex editor." Document exactly which offsets that file begins and ends with. If you find information online, post your sources, take screenshots, and document
<strong>
everything
</strong>
you can.
</p>
<p>
To go back to the owl-flag example, the user put in a screenshot of his hex editor... but it wasn't the same file open. People just looked at the screenshot and took it as fact without ever attempting to step through the same procedure, and that's how we can easily overstep from fact into fiction.
</p>
<p>
Of course, discussion and theories are welcome, but we need to know the difference between hard evidence - something that can be reproduced by
<em>
anybody
</em>
following your same procedure - and theories.
</p>
<p>
At the end of the day, meticulously documented evidence will be the only way this case will actually break. So anytime you find a new lead from WikiLeaks, or some information inside a file, or a link online, always leave a list of how you obtained that information so others can independently verify this. By doing so, we eliminate the possibility of purposeful disinformation - a growing concern on this sub - because the data is what the data is, and only the procedure can be called into question.
</p>
<p>
So let's put on our scientist hats and get back at it!
</p>
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<div class="comment" id="t1_da1r4g0">
<p class="userinfo">
<a href="https://www.reddit.com/u/Uranium234">
Uranium234
</a>
<span class="score">
| 36 points
</span>
<span class="timestamp">
| Nov 15 2016 20:35:05
</span>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
Ty based mod for stifling the amount of disinformation from these fuckin shills
</p>
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<div class="comment" id="t1_da3ojh7">
<p class="userinfo">
<a href="https://www.reddit.com/u/Basketsky">
Basketsky
</a>
<span class="score">
| 3 points
</span>
<span class="timestamp">
| Nov 17 2016 02:38:00
</span>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
"Get money, get turnt." - Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton president of red goat head religion.
</p>
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<div class="comment" id="t1_da1uih7">
<p class="userinfo">
<a href="https://www.reddit.com/u/newpostnewuser">
newpostnewuser
</a>
<span class="score">
| 20 points
</span>
<span class="timestamp">
| Nov 15 2016 21:42:54
</span>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
The mods should enforce those rules so we could clean the forum. I mean these rules should have been here right from the start, I feel the sub is losing its grip to counter-intelligence force.
</p>
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<div class="comment" id="t1_da2cyqu">
<p class="userinfo">
<a href="https://www.reddit.com/u/PleadingtheYiff">
PleadingtheYiff
</a>
<span class="score">
| 10 points
</span>
<span class="timestamp">
| Nov 16 2016 04:46:03
</span>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
Most of us are pretty new to this, we're working on it.
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<div class="comment" id="t1_da2y9dv">
<p class="userinfo">
[deleted]
<span class="score">
| 4 points
</span>
<span class="timestamp">
| Nov 16 2016 17:14:59
</span>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
You're doing well for moding for the first time I presume? If you find someone in real life whom you trust, and is good at reddit, make him a mod. Don't mod random people ever. Not even me.
</p>
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<div class="comment" id="t1_da33g0e">
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<a href="https://www.reddit.com/u/PleadingtheYiff">
PleadingtheYiff
</a>
<span class="score">
| 2 points
</span>
<span class="timestamp">
| Nov 16 2016 18:58:15
</span>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
This is my first time, and I had no idea I would ever be invited to mod. The whole pizzagate thing has really blown up faster than we realized. Thanks for the advice!
</p>
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<div class="comment" id="t1_da1rnhp">
<p class="userinfo">
<a href="https://www.reddit.com/u/AnonIDIOTA">
AnonIDIOTA
</a>
<span class="score">
| 15 points
</span>
<span class="timestamp">
| Nov 15 2016 20:45:35
</span>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
This exactly. What we need is a main MAIN thread where only confirmed evidence can be posted. NEW evidence put into the thread has to be documented and confirmed by multiple sources.
</p>
<p>
Edit. Main concern is as the amount of people join this sub, and Shillls ...were going to get alot more posts that distract us from the main concern. Just take a look at the new section...its 80percent garbage. Not saying there arent any leads but keep that shit out of a main thread.
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<div class="comment" id="t1_da1q5ho">
<p class="userinfo">
<a href="https://www.reddit.com/u/newfoundland_urth">
newfoundland_urth
</a>
<span class="score">
| 13 points
</span>
<span class="timestamp">
| Nov 15 2016 20:15:48
</span>
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<p>
</p>
<p>
amen brother
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<div class="comment" id="t1_da1rkgs">
<p class="userinfo">
<a href="https://www.reddit.com/u/Milennial_Falcon">
Milennial_Falcon
</a>
<span class="score">
| 5 points
</span>
<span class="timestamp">
| Nov 15 2016 20:43:56
</span>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
Thank you!
</p>
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<div class="comment" id="t1_da2j6mu">
<p class="userinfo">
<a href="https://www.reddit.com/u/street1510">
street1510
</a>
<span class="score">
| 3 points
</span>
<span class="timestamp">
| Nov 16 2016 08:58:48
</span>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
I dissected that flag image on another users request it's definitely fake. Here's what I told them:
</p>
<p>
I made a comparison of figure lurking in the back of the original and the minerva picture which had a hidden face at the top left. I don't think they match, in fact I think the one on the left is literally a picture of Hitler. https://i.sli.mg/elO4os.jpg
</p>
<p>
Here's the source of the cross too: https://flagspot.net/images/g/ge-oni.gif
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<div class="comment" id="t1_da24uro">
<p class="userinfo">
<a href="https://www.reddit.com/u/Mylon">
Mylon
</a>
<span class="score">
| 2 points
</span>
<span class="timestamp">
| Nov 16 2016 01:34:13
</span>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
Doesn't always work. Evidence regularly disappears so you need sli.mg links and archive.is links in addition to direct links.
</p>
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<div class="comment" id="t1_da3qdr1">
<p class="userinfo">
<a href="https://www.reddit.com/u/Tfish">
Tfish
</a>
<span class="score">
| 2 points
</span>
<span class="timestamp">
| Nov 17 2016 03:23:08
</span>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
Aren't the code words that've been passed around just as baseless as that owl image? Maybe I just missed it, but so far all I've ever seen to back up the belief that any of these pizza/pasta related code words mean the specific things they're said to mean is just a 4chan post listing each word and it's counterpart.
</p>
<p>
I haven't seen any sort of real documentation that these words have actually been used in the context that is being claimed prior to this case.
</p>
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<div class="comment" id="t1_da5ec1c">
<p class="userinfo">
<a href="https://www.reddit.com/u/nervousdoggie123">
nervousdoggie123
</a>
<span class="score">
| 1 points
</span>
<span class="timestamp">
| Nov 18 2016 07:20:53
</span>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
Def not CTR would def love an explanation on this one
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<div class="comment" id="t1_da2hszf">
<p class="userinfo">
<a href="https://www.reddit.com/u/TheGreatRoh">
TheGreatRoh
</a>
<span class="score">
| 1 points
</span>
<span class="timestamp">
| Nov 16 2016 07:46:30
</span>
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<p>
</p>
<p>
Thank you. Now I can follow.
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<div class="comment" id="t1_da5em61">
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<a href="https://www.reddit.com/u/Ninjakick666">
Ninjakick666
</a>
<span class="score">
| 1 points
</span>
<span class="timestamp">
| Nov 18 2016 07:33:56
</span>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
I went crazy trying to get anyone on /r/conspiracy to explain the steps used to reproduce the extraction of that image... they danced around it like wikileaks and the PGP keys. People supplied plenty of fluff... but no evidence.
</p>
<p>
https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5db3bd/decoding_the_podesta_flag_explanation_of_elite/
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